Primordial Error and Supreme Sauce
From the Way-of-Light Yahoo list:
> "In his book "Self-Liberation Through Seeing With Naked Awareness,"
> John Reynolds writes:
> "Why do sentient beings endlessly wander through destinies and worlds in the
> cycle of deth and rebirth which is Samsara? Because they do not recognize
> their own intrinsic awareness and understand it's significance. This was the
> primordial error, and its consequence was the fall of beings into
> transmigration.
>
> J Comments: I don't quite agree with John's "view" of things...in the
> ultimate sense:
>
> There is no "error" in our Nature/Awareness and never was. It's just that
> certain levels of consciousness see things differently from other, higher or
> lower, differing vantage points. From the vantage or viewpoint of ego, its
> dimension is viewed as samsara. Ego consciousness is not enlightened and so
> sees reality through a limited view. And we are not our ego.
I have the same issue with this "Primordial error" view as I have with the "Course In Miracles" explanation that the whole physical universe came into being because of the Son of God's momentary 'rebellious thought.' (paraphrasing). Ditto with Xtianity's "Original Sin," which presumes that humanity was not supposed to make the journey through self-awareness to awareness of awareness to dissolving in the Supreme Sauce. (my leetle joke!)
As for your excellent explanation, J, it reminds me of Ken Wilber's 'All
Quadrants All Levels' map, which also sorts out the difference between
'states' (ephemeral) and 'stages' (permanent) in the 'Wilber-Combs Lattice:'
The Wilber-Combs Lattice
States: Gross Subtle Causal Nondual
(natural) (visionary) (formless) (union)
Integral Stage
Pluralistic Stage
Rational Stage
Mythic Stage
Magic Stage
Archaic Stage
As Wilber mentions, even a Nazi can achieve satori (nondual state), but
he still remains way down the ladder (Ethnocentiric) with many more
levels above him. Here's a quote from a dialogue with Wilber in WIE
Magazine's summer 2006 issue where the levels are developed further
(apologies if I'm repeating myself - one of the privileges of seniority):
[Quoting from]
What Is Enlightenment Magazine
Evolving Worldviews, Expanding Self
Although the spectrum of consciousness includes twelve colors to denote
twelve specific levels, stages, structures, or waves of development, for
ease of explanation Wilber often uses a simpler, three- or four level scheme
pioneered by developmental psychologists like Lawrence Kohlberg and Carol
Gilligan. Tracing the most general contours of psychological growth, this
scheme highlights the fact that increasing consciousness corresponds to a
broadening of worldviews and an expansion of one's sense of self.
Egocentric ("me"): A stage characterized by narcissistic self-absorption,
bodily needs and desires, emotional outbursts, unsocialized impulses, and an
incapacity to take the role of the "other"; seen today predominantly in
infants and young children, rebellious teens, wild rock stars, and
criminals. (Infrared to red)
Ethnocentric ("us"): An expansion of self-identity to include one's family,
peers, tribe, race, faith group, or nation; the adoption of socially
conformist rules and roles; commonly seen in children aged seven to
adolescence, religious myths and fundamentalism, the . ,'moral majority,"
Nazis, the KKK, right-wing politics, patriotism, sports teams, school
rivalries. (Amber)
Worldcentric ("all of us"): An even greater expansion of self to embrace all
people, regardless of race, gender, class, or creed; a stage of rationality
that questions rigid belief systems and transcends conventional rules and
roles; commonly seen in late adolescence, social activism, multiculturalism,
science, moral relativism, liberal politics, the "global village," New Age
spirituality; the emergence of integral cognition. (Orange to teal)
Kosmocentric ("all that is"): An identification with all life and
consciousness, human or otherwise, and a deeply felt responsibility for the
evolutionary process as a whole; "superintegral" cognition and values;
innate universal morality; spirituality beyond merely personal motivations;
an emergent capacity, rarely seen anywhere. (Turquoise to clear light)
------------------------------------------------------------
WILBER: Now these stages, which we also call structures or levels, show up
in all human beings, so we have to take them into account. One of the real
problems is that you can have a spiritual experience – a profound taste of
emptiness, or pure nonduality, or absolute oneness, or radiant, luminous
absolute bliss/love – and when you come out of that experience or even while
you're in it, you'll interpret it according to the level or stage you're at.
The evidence for this is now just overwhelming.
So understanding stages is the first piece of the puzzle. The second piece
is states of consciousness. States of consciousness generally tend to come
and go; they are temporary. The natural/meditative ones are waking (gross),
dreaming (subtle), deep steep (causal), witnessing, and nondual. And then
there are nonordinary states, such as drunken states and stoned states. And
you can have any of these state experiences at virtually any level or stage
you're at. You can be at any level and have a waking, dreaming, or deep
steep state. You can be at any level and experience a meditative state. You
can be at any Level and actually go through Zen training. What's so
astonishing is that a Nazi can complete Zen training. That's the point –
states can be experienced at any stage you're at.
[End Quote]
By the way, for those of you who have tried reading Wilber and found him
too 'dense,' I suggest his journal excerpts titled "One Taste" as an easy
entry point to his theories -- and a close-up view of the man behind them.
-=-=-===-=
I've been reading The Supreme Source: The Fundamental Tantra of the
Dzogchen Semde by Kunjed Gyalpo, translated by Norbu-Clemente (Snow Lion Press)
A favorite quote from p. 153
"The desire for happiness is the disease of attachment; one can be happy
only when free of desires.* Realization is not achieved by striving for it;
it arises spontaneously when one abides in the natural state without seeking
anything. So remain in the natural state without seeking, without concepts!
Even though the name 'enlightenment' is used for the real nature, this does
not mean that 'enlightenment' concretely exists. If someone believes the
opposite, [let them go ahead and try to find] enlightenment apart from the
dimension of fundamental reality; they will find nothing at all. So, instead
of aiming for enlightenment, one has to understand the nature of one's mind
beyond action. On examining one's mind, one finds nothing, yet at the same
time there is clarity that is every present. It does not manifest
concretely, yet its essence is all pervading; this is the way its nature
presents itself."
* Ramon notes: Or when the 'desire for happiness' is satisfied (purr purr)
and seeking ceases as one dissolves in the Supreme Sauce!
And p. 138
(Explaining the term 'self-arising wisdom'):
[quote]
Its being "self-arising" means that, as it is free of causes and
conditions, it transcends all effort.
[End quote]
Okay, so now let's turn to Sri Ramana Maharshi's great one-liner (I was
delighted to read that this phrase was also crucial in Wilber's
development): "That which is not present in deep dreamless sleep is not
real."
In my view, the relaxed and 'resonant' breath is a manifestation of deep,
dreamless sleep, caused by the relaxed lowering of the soft palate and
resonating the trachea as consciousness dissolves into the heart.
My question is: inasmuch as the 'resonant breath' is triggered by deep
relaxation, can it be considered as 'free of causes and conditions' and thus
viewed as 'self-arising?'
If so, then perhaps instead of the interest amongst meditators in
'remaining aware throughout all states of consciousness (awake, dream, deep
sleep), maybe we can 'remain asleep while awake and while dreaming...' by
practicing the self-arising resonant breath while awake.
Also, the blue sky frequently occurs as a metaphor for essence:
[quote]
p. 175
My essence is like the sky. My meaning is fundamental reality. My nature is
pure and total consciousness.
Listen! I have no hindrances, and I transcend concepts: the sky beyond
concepts is the dharmakaya dimension... being like the sky means not
accepting or rejecting.
[end quote]
But 'within' the sky we have a blazing golden ball in manifestation.
How does that work out? I guess Solar Consciousness is the Buddha
manifesting as the Nirmanakaya?
Quoting J from a Dzogchen list posting 'back when:'
[quote]
How about when a Buddha is self-manifesting as a Buddha as-is, not
projecting some lesser "state", the inherent dynamics of the Buddha shine
forth spontaneously. And that energy arises from the Dharmakaya, and in
that first moment of arising, a manifestation is beginning to appear yet not
in our 3D karmic world, that's the Sambhogakaya. As that appearance takes
on greater manifestation, now reaching our dimension, the pure dynamics of
Being, appear as the Nirmanakaya or emanation appearing in our karmic
vision. At this level, this manifestation brings about an Enlightenment to
those engaged in less than Buddhic awareness. Kind of a living "wake
up"call.
[end quote]
Ramon: The sun burns out of compassion for all spirit essences locked in the
embrace of cold matter -- i.e. "Come to me as you are. I am that also." And
it also explains the phototropic urge of all living things.**
**For more about this phototropic urge of life, see my 'Maybe So Story' "Why
Nature Grew Humans"
http://www.raysender.com/maybenature.html
Comments welcome, especially regarding the 'self-arising' resonant breath!
Ramon
"Hey, I'm not pursuing bliss! It's pursuing -- well, hello, there! I do
believe the sNOman is melting..."
> "In his book "Self-Liberation Through Seeing With Naked Awareness,"
> John Reynolds writes:
> "Why do sentient beings endlessly wander through destinies and worlds in the
> cycle of deth and rebirth which is Samsara? Because they do not recognize
> their own intrinsic awareness and understand it's significance. This was the
> primordial error, and its consequence was the fall of beings into
> transmigration.
>
> J Comments: I don't quite agree with John's "view" of things...in the
> ultimate sense:
>
> There is no "error" in our Nature/Awareness and never was. It's just that
> certain levels of consciousness see things differently from other, higher or
> lower, differing vantage points. From the vantage or viewpoint of ego, its
> dimension is viewed as samsara. Ego consciousness is not enlightened and so
> sees reality through a limited view. And we are not our ego.
I have the same issue with this "Primordial error" view as I have with the "Course In Miracles" explanation that the whole physical universe came into being because of the Son of God's momentary 'rebellious thought.' (paraphrasing). Ditto with Xtianity's "Original Sin," which presumes that humanity was not supposed to make the journey through self-awareness to awareness of awareness to dissolving in the Supreme Sauce. (my leetle joke!)
As for your excellent explanation, J, it reminds me of Ken Wilber's 'All
Quadrants All Levels' map, which also sorts out the difference between
'states' (ephemeral) and 'stages' (permanent) in the 'Wilber-Combs Lattice:'
The Wilber-Combs Lattice
States: Gross Subtle Causal Nondual
(natural) (visionary) (formless) (union)
Integral Stage
Pluralistic Stage
Rational Stage
Mythic Stage
Magic Stage
Archaic Stage
As Wilber mentions, even a Nazi can achieve satori (nondual state), but
he still remains way down the ladder (Ethnocentiric) with many more
levels above him. Here's a quote from a dialogue with Wilber in WIE
Magazine's summer 2006 issue where the levels are developed further
(apologies if I'm repeating myself - one of the privileges of seniority):
[Quoting from]
What Is Enlightenment Magazine
Evolving Worldviews, Expanding Self
Although the spectrum of consciousness includes twelve colors to denote
twelve specific levels, stages, structures, or waves of development, for
ease of explanation Wilber often uses a simpler, three- or four level scheme
pioneered by developmental psychologists like Lawrence Kohlberg and Carol
Gilligan. Tracing the most general contours of psychological growth, this
scheme highlights the fact that increasing consciousness corresponds to a
broadening of worldviews and an expansion of one's sense of self.
Egocentric ("me"): A stage characterized by narcissistic self-absorption,
bodily needs and desires, emotional outbursts, unsocialized impulses, and an
incapacity to take the role of the "other"; seen today predominantly in
infants and young children, rebellious teens, wild rock stars, and
criminals. (Infrared to red)
Ethnocentric ("us"): An expansion of self-identity to include one's family,
peers, tribe, race, faith group, or nation; the adoption of socially
conformist rules and roles; commonly seen in children aged seven to
adolescence, religious myths and fundamentalism, the . ,'moral majority,"
Nazis, the KKK, right-wing politics, patriotism, sports teams, school
rivalries. (Amber)
Worldcentric ("all of us"): An even greater expansion of self to embrace all
people, regardless of race, gender, class, or creed; a stage of rationality
that questions rigid belief systems and transcends conventional rules and
roles; commonly seen in late adolescence, social activism, multiculturalism,
science, moral relativism, liberal politics, the "global village," New Age
spirituality; the emergence of integral cognition. (Orange to teal)
Kosmocentric ("all that is"): An identification with all life and
consciousness, human or otherwise, and a deeply felt responsibility for the
evolutionary process as a whole; "superintegral" cognition and values;
innate universal morality; spirituality beyond merely personal motivations;
an emergent capacity, rarely seen anywhere. (Turquoise to clear light)
------------------------------------------------------------
WILBER: Now these stages, which we also call structures or levels, show up
in all human beings, so we have to take them into account. One of the real
problems is that you can have a spiritual experience – a profound taste of
emptiness, or pure nonduality, or absolute oneness, or radiant, luminous
absolute bliss/love – and when you come out of that experience or even while
you're in it, you'll interpret it according to the level or stage you're at.
The evidence for this is now just overwhelming.
So understanding stages is the first piece of the puzzle. The second piece
is states of consciousness. States of consciousness generally tend to come
and go; they are temporary. The natural/meditative ones are waking (gross),
dreaming (subtle), deep steep (causal), witnessing, and nondual. And then
there are nonordinary states, such as drunken states and stoned states. And
you can have any of these state experiences at virtually any level or stage
you're at. You can be at any level and have a waking, dreaming, or deep
steep state. You can be at any level and experience a meditative state. You
can be at any Level and actually go through Zen training. What's so
astonishing is that a Nazi can complete Zen training. That's the point –
states can be experienced at any stage you're at.
[End Quote]
By the way, for those of you who have tried reading Wilber and found him
too 'dense,' I suggest his journal excerpts titled "One Taste" as an easy
entry point to his theories -- and a close-up view of the man behind them.
-=-=-===-=
I've been reading The Supreme Source: The Fundamental Tantra of the
Dzogchen Semde by Kunjed Gyalpo, translated by Norbu-Clemente (Snow Lion Press)
A favorite quote from p. 153
"The desire for happiness is the disease of attachment; one can be happy
only when free of desires.* Realization is not achieved by striving for it;
it arises spontaneously when one abides in the natural state without seeking
anything. So remain in the natural state without seeking, without concepts!
Even though the name 'enlightenment' is used for the real nature, this does
not mean that 'enlightenment' concretely exists. If someone believes the
opposite, [let them go ahead and try to find] enlightenment apart from the
dimension of fundamental reality; they will find nothing at all. So, instead
of aiming for enlightenment, one has to understand the nature of one's mind
beyond action. On examining one's mind, one finds nothing, yet at the same
time there is clarity that is every present. It does not manifest
concretely, yet its essence is all pervading; this is the way its nature
presents itself."
* Ramon notes: Or when the 'desire for happiness' is satisfied (purr purr)
and seeking ceases as one dissolves in the Supreme Sauce!
And p. 138
(Explaining the term 'self-arising wisdom'):
[quote]
Its being "self-arising" means that, as it is free of causes and
conditions, it transcends all effort.
[End quote]
Okay, so now let's turn to Sri Ramana Maharshi's great one-liner (I was
delighted to read that this phrase was also crucial in Wilber's
development): "That which is not present in deep dreamless sleep is not
real."
In my view, the relaxed and 'resonant' breath is a manifestation of deep,
dreamless sleep, caused by the relaxed lowering of the soft palate and
resonating the trachea as consciousness dissolves into the heart.
My question is: inasmuch as the 'resonant breath' is triggered by deep
relaxation, can it be considered as 'free of causes and conditions' and thus
viewed as 'self-arising?'
If so, then perhaps instead of the interest amongst meditators in
'remaining aware throughout all states of consciousness (awake, dream, deep
sleep), maybe we can 'remain asleep while awake and while dreaming...' by
practicing the self-arising resonant breath while awake.
Also, the blue sky frequently occurs as a metaphor for essence:
[quote]
p. 175
My essence is like the sky. My meaning is fundamental reality. My nature is
pure and total consciousness.
Listen! I have no hindrances, and I transcend concepts: the sky beyond
concepts is the dharmakaya dimension... being like the sky means not
accepting or rejecting.
[end quote]
But 'within' the sky we have a blazing golden ball in manifestation.
How does that work out? I guess Solar Consciousness is the Buddha
manifesting as the Nirmanakaya?
Quoting J from a Dzogchen list posting 'back when:'
[quote]
How about when a Buddha is self-manifesting as a Buddha as-is, not
projecting some lesser "state", the inherent dynamics of the Buddha shine
forth spontaneously. And that energy arises from the Dharmakaya, and in
that first moment of arising, a manifestation is beginning to appear yet not
in our 3D karmic world, that's the Sambhogakaya. As that appearance takes
on greater manifestation, now reaching our dimension, the pure dynamics of
Being, appear as the Nirmanakaya or emanation appearing in our karmic
vision. At this level, this manifestation brings about an Enlightenment to
those engaged in less than Buddhic awareness. Kind of a living "wake
up"call.
[end quote]
Ramon: The sun burns out of compassion for all spirit essences locked in the
embrace of cold matter -- i.e. "Come to me as you are. I am that also." And
it also explains the phototropic urge of all living things.**
**For more about this phototropic urge of life, see my 'Maybe So Story' "Why
Nature Grew Humans"
http://www.raysender.com/maybenature.html
Comments welcome, especially regarding the 'self-arising' resonant breath!
Ramon
"Hey, I'm not pursuing bliss! It's pursuing -- well, hello, there! I do
believe the sNOman is melting..."